Maybe if I just start by asking both of you, where do you think you would be on a Gartner maturity scale of one to five in terms of either your customer or supplier collaboration and CPF at the moment there? P, I'll ask you first.
P
Yes. I'm just laughing because it's my biggest challenge, to be honest. I come from a competitor who's quite mature from the spirits business. Making the move and noticing that I might have to do the same thing I did back at XXX is an interesting one! Yeah, maybe it's a bit outdated what I used to do there, so it's interesting to keep up.
JP Doggett
Okay. So, as far as XXX goes, you're at the beginning of that journey, or close to the beginning stages, it's fair to say?
P
I'll put my regional hat on because I’m the supply chain director for France, Italy and Greece and it's seriously at a low level there. Yeah, but it's in the strategy to implement it, so there's no way around it. It has to happen in the next two years. Like in the UK. Obviously in the UK it's more mature.
JP Doggett
Got you. M, it might be similar for you at XXX because, if I remember correctly, you're responsible for Central Europe and Russia markets?
M
Yeah, I'm responsible for this, but I guess it's fair to say that I can comment on EMEA in a way because I used to work for Italy before, so I know very well the situation in West Europe. West would be like continental Europe plus UK and Ireland. The situation is pretty much the same when it comes to supplier collaboration or integration, whatever you want to call it. And the situation is really bad. The level of maturity in my mind, regardless of Gartner, for me is level one, meaning that we really need to build that almost from scratch. It goes on two levels: data integration, but most importantly real integration with suppliers. As far as I see, except in very few cases, there is no real sense of partnership with these suppliers, which is crazy because the volumes that we have are very big, as you can imagine.
By the way, P, I’m responsible for planning, logistics, customer service and everything that is related to supply for XXX.
P
OK, thanks. Yes, at XXX, I've got S&OP teams and customer services.
M
Logistics, I guess we are in a very similar position. I used to work for Italy before as head of European Logistics and then I moved to this regional role one year ago and yeah, basically, we are not integrated with the suppliers. This means, of course, that every kind of disruption we see the day before and this is a problem on the customer side, I have to say that there are customer countries that are way ahead of the agenda in terms of integration and real collaboration. In Russia, the two biggest customers that we have are fully integrated. In the UK and other big players in Europe are integrated and we share forecasts, we share data, we share inventory position. But, on the supplier, I guess that's the real problem that you have at the moment. The one point that for me, of course would be really interesting to understand is the data integration because I have the feeling that the suppliers are not so open to share data and to facilitate this possible integration that we might want to pursue. This is something that I can see as a possible threat for any evolution for the future.
JP Doggett
That what you see as well, P…reluctance to share data?
P
No, I don't know, because we're not even at that stage yet. What I noticed, compared to competitors, we have very little dealings with our suppliers. It's as if I'm exaggerating, but it's nearly like on the spot pricing, nearly. And it's due to historical reluctance of XXX to go into long term partnerships with suppliers, thinking that is the right way and being very aggressive on pricing. At the same time, I see competitors partnering up more. Sharing more data. Almost integrating them in the end to end and this is certainly not the case for us and the problem is in the next three or four years that will be crucial for success. We can already see it where suppliers are naturally using their raw materials towards competitors instead of us because basically the competitors have invested in the relationship and we haven't because we're all fighting for the same raw materials.
Yeah, for us we need to the first step of really partnering up and then can we integrate fully so we're way behind. On customer, it's better. For example, like Tesco, it's going really well, we're trying to integrate as much as we can with the big retailers…we're really investing in that relationship but on the supplier side it's ground zero at the moment.
JP Doggett
Your suppliers perhaps haven't felt the love when times are normal and now when you really want them to go above and beyond for you, they don't feel invested in that relationship. Is that similar scenario for you M?
M
Yeah, it's pretty much the same. I have to say here there is the awareness and we understand how important the journey is. It's still not that clear how to get there but we know that we need to, at least for the top ones. I don't know how many rows and packs you manage P. For us it's really huge the number of rows and packs but of course there are some key commodities, as you said. This kind of stuff where we have to have better visibility also when it comes to getting the strategies right. About how to be covered in case of disruptions, it's something that we should agree with them. Otherwise it's hard to share a bit of the pain of extra inventory. Extra coverage for instance now we are approaching the winter in Europe and we all know how thoughts this can be so it would be really important to make sure that they commit to what they can do.
JP Doggett
Perhaps it's a good time to introduce the Gartner model of best practice at this point because I think the key point they said of why you want to be doing this is to make sure that prioritization decisions are clear when supplies are constrained. As you're both saying. It's got to be that it's you that is making those prioritization decisions on which orders to fill and not the supplier so that you just get to find out about it the day before or on the day. That's the first point and then the first step they say, which we're also talking about already is supplier segmentation. I think the interesting part of that is that a traditional segmentation might be done by the procurement team and that would be determined by spend and revenue and complexity to replace that supplier. Gartner was saying that the supply chain team, the planning team needs to be involved and you also need to think about willingness to collaborate, which is what you're both talking about, but there isn't that willingness at the moment.
Do you recognize that as being the correct first step that you need to take to go on this journey?
P
For me, definitely yes. At the moment, I’m really working on procurement. We don't have a very powerful procurement department, which I thought was strange. We're trying to fix that first to give them more power and then I see the benefit completely. I think it's turning now because of the circumstances. It would have been probably easier if we would have come to that conclusion earlier. I know everyone now is convinced because we've had a couple of incidents like with supplier visibility and suppliers making decisions for us. We know it's crucial because it's led to, I think, about $800,000 of lost sales at the moment.. In the spares business you have $800,000 quite quickly, but it's quite a bit of money to lose, just from a supplier collaboration point of view.
M
Also for me, it makes total sense. You have to start with really understanding who you should take before, as a first step, and then you cannot do everything at the same time. So you go for prioritization must be done by procurement and planning. Of course, altogether it's something that we have to say in XX, it's working better, so at least we speak the same language. Of course, procurement is clear that they have to focus more on that negotiation part and planning is responsible for all the rest. By the way, this applies for me also for the customer collaboration, it's the same: segmentation is always the first step.
JP Doggett
Yes, that's why I was saying it was kind of two sides of the same coin because they basically said the same thing on the customer side. That segmentation is the first step. Scaling that pilot over multiple customers.
M
Yeah, apparently we are in the same boat, right. It's hard to get the best out of. It would be amazing to have someone that maybe is a bit more advanced on that. The one thing that maybe it could be interesting is to understand the level of control that you guys have in XXX when it comes to rows and pack. My question is, are you treating rows and pack, from a planning standpoint, at the same level of importance as finished goods when it comes to inventory check, coverage check…?
P
No, it's one of the issues. XXX, who normally attends these calls has to chase weekly to completely redress that situation because there's been no focus on it for years and to be honest, there's a lot of money tied up, a lot of, I think over half can’t be used anymore. There has been no focus on it, there's been no digitalization on it, there's been very little visibility and we are changing towards a new system and we're outsourcing it basically.
M
Now I can tell you that this is one thing that I changed personally with my team and it worked in a way to gain more control over that because normally we think about production planning, we think about finished goods and they feel responsible and accountable only for the finished goods. What we changed in mindset is really, guys, you are responsible for the availability of the finished goods, which by the way includes also the availability of the rows and pack.. There is normally an MRP team in the factory. You have to make sure that team is working in the proper way and you have to be accountable for the rows and pack availability as much as you are accountable for finished goods. This seems like simple stuff, but in fact it's driving a lot of early notification of problems and from there you can actually act preventively.
This is something that for me, it's not a game changer, but for sure it's improving the control and the availability of the rows and pack over the supply chain.
P
We have an improvement program now going on in Glasgow to completely change that way of working. It's kind of a crash task force trying to change in three months because it's really important. So it's on the way.
JP Doggett
I just have a question for both of you. P, you mentioned visibility, so I guess in a way that's even a step before the collaboration, right? Because you kind of need to know even if there is no collaboration, if there's no communication, you want to know what's coming and what's not coming and when it's coming. Are you guys doing anything in terms of trying to improve supply side visibility?
P
Yeah, at the moment our biggest pain is transport and we are improving visibility on transport. We're implementing a tracking system because we had no idea between the point of production and the commercial warehouse what was happening. It might seem small, so it's freight suppliers, but obviously that was the biggest issue, impacting customers. We're doing that right now and then afterwards we need to go after all the other raw materials.
JP Doggett
Yeah. How about you XXX?
M
For us the problem is really the visibility on the supplier side in terms of their capability to fulfil our plan. That's the main gap. On the transportation, we do have raw material that we are buying from the US. But it's not critical at the moment. I mean we have good coverage. Most of the suppliers are in Europe so the lead time is not a big deal. The real problem is really how much stock you are holding for me? So can you respect my production plan? Do you have problems with your suppliers? Because that's the other big point, that we are completely blind. Tier one is one thing, but tier two suppliers are really even more far from us…there; is the real commodity, right?
Sometimes it might be and might come from China, might come from places really far from us. Again there would be I don't know, it would take years to get this level of integration. Normally you should take care also of that part if you really want to know if your supply chain is resilient enough or not.